Rebecca Rose Payne 0:00

Hi everyone. Uh today we have Scott Abbott, who is a serial entrepreneur, investor, executive coach, and four-time best-selling author who has spent more than 35 years building companies, leading high-performing teams, and helping leaders create prosperous businesses and lives. Thank you so much for being on, Scott.

Scott Abbott 0:20

Thanks, Rebecca. Appreciate you having me on the show today.

Rebecca Rose Payne 0:25

Yes. So I guess to start, were you always somebody who was building things, like even as a kid?

Scott Abbott 0:31

Are you implying I've always been a misfit and could never get along and wanted to paint outside the lines and do things that necessarily didn't always keep me in good graces with everybody? You know, it's funny because my dad's uh my hero and he's a mechanical engineer by schooling and trade. And he used to push my buttons on, you know, staying within the lines for good reasons, as engineers should and do. And I might have rebelled a little bit against that. That's maybe why I became quote unquote this entrepreneur, even though I still don't know what that means exactly. But I started my first company in my early 20s, and you know, I've always loved work with big companies and small. So I the business and and putting it all together has always been my intrigue and my passion. But yeah, I think uh, you know, I've been blessed to live and work all over the world. I've seen a few things. That's why I'm supporting the I was in I was in Madrid in '82 for the World Cup, and so soccer's been a big part of my life. Go USA, by the way. Uh, it says airing. We'll see where the status is, but for now we're pretty happy. But yeah, it's been a journey, and frankly, I hope everybody feels the same way. There's something to be taken from scrappy startup, entrepreneur worlds, big companies do really good things, not for profit, right? As long as everybody embraces what I call the essential concepts, tools, and disciplines and and tries to find the harmony and the balance between, you know, life and work. A lot of good places to be a part of.

Rebecca Rose Payne 1:54

Yeah, couldn't agree more. So, what were you kind of like growing up? Were you kind of a rebel or again?

Scott Abbott 2:02

I had an interesting upbringing. I moved to London when I was six, lived there for about seven years, but also jumped over to Paris, then back to London and Chicago and Madrid, Spain, my last three years. So I think all that moving around while in hindsight, I I loved it. I actually think I was a bit of an introvert. When you bounce around and you don't have that type of stability, it does teach you, I think, some things that entrepreneurs are known for, being able to adapt and adopt and overcome obstacles and challenges and things you're not used to and being being comfortable with being uncomfortable. So so yeah, I I I look back. Um I, you know, very blessed to have a great family, great, great support system. But but yeah, I definitely had an interesting upbringing where I was able to see a lot of different worlds and experiences and and that impacted me. And I think ideally that's you know, made me I'm plenty flawed. I got a lot of things I need to work on, but but I definitely think it was a passion for wanting to help others and and see things better because I've been able to see a lot of things that aren't necessarily good or things we don't want to do. And so that's been as much of a motivator as anything.

Rebecca Rose Payne 3:08

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like your upbringing kind of set you up twofold, both exposing you to all different types of environments and also the being comfortable with instability to a certain extent, which is required in business.

Scott Abbott 3:22

It happens more often than it should, maybe. That's why one of my passions is helping people to call it what you will systemize. I happen to believe that counterintuitively, the better you are with regards to how you should do things, the more it actually helps you be freer and less anxious and and less worried. Again, it's counterintuitive, but if you really want to, you know, have a bountiful, abundant life, and whether you're the owner or a worker, even if you're not in business per se, just yourself, the better you can have good regimentation. Again, I'll use the term systemization, and you do the things that you should do every day consistently well, it allows you to actually, you know, enjoy this world more than if you didn't. So that's kind of a big motivator for me and and one of the passions I try to share with other people these days.

Rebecca Rose Payne 4:13

Yeah. Do you think there was ever a time where you mistook anxiety for ambition?

Scott Abbott 4:20

Hmm. I think, as the expression goes, you know, two things can be true at once. I think, you know, the yin and the yang, anxiety, ambition, challenges, opportunities, concerns, and confidence. I mean, you know, I often even say embrace this concept of the imposter syndrome, fake it till you make it. I mean, uh stumble your way. Ideally, you're as organized and prepared and and ready as possible, but let's all be honest. We don't know what we don't know. And uh, as much as you can practice and plan and set yourself up for good things, you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans. I mean, you know, things go bump in the night and you stumble and you fumble. So I think, yeah, I I I like what you asked there because I would say that in my experience and and maybe a philosophy of mine is and both, uh right? To to be anxious and and passionate, to be concerned and knowing that you're concerned, that that generates confidence. You with me? What do you think? Can you can you hold both thoughts that seem to be diametrically opposed or actually part of the same vibe to a degree?

Rebecca Rose Payne 5:29

Yeah, I mean, I think that to a certain extent, anxiety is required for ambition, because like if we had no anxiety at all, there's no reason to ever get out of bed or stop playing video games or do anything that's a little bit boring or a little bit hard because why would we if we're not worried about it?

Scott Abbott 5:52

Yeah. Well, and if you believe, you know, DNA, right? Once upon a time we lived in caves, and you know, you if you weren't fearful, you could get eaten. And I mean, even today, there's things that you need to be aware of. So yeah, I DNA is a powerful thing. And it's also a, you know, look at the world around us. Sometimes it's sadly manipulated and exploited and used as an excuse, right? But I think us humans in general, outside of what we may look like or opinions on this, that, or the other, I do believe there's a reason to this conversation on your question that anxiousness is actually a positiveness, but also figure out how to control it, uh, how to harness it. Conflict, for example, I I teach and literally preach that without conflict and tension, you can't get from one place to the next. I mean, just look at tension, for example. It's it's it's the heart of keeping things together. And then conflict, again, as long as you know how to ideally work with it and through it, can actually create awareness and empathy and agency, a whole host of things. And so that's kind of a fun thing, I think, these days is how do you take what could be considered to be a pejorative or a negative and say, yeah, you know, on one level, but on the other level, without that, we might not get all of these other benefits. You with me?

Rebecca Rose Payne 7:14

Definitely. I mean, particularly as someone who I tend to personally be conflict averse, um, you make an excellent point that without conflict, you're never gonna do anything different or like revolutionary because people are always gonna be like, no, you can't do this, it's the way that we do it. And it's never been done that way, so you can't do it that way. And I mean, that in and of itself is a conflict.

Scott Abbott 7:37

That's right. And and if you think that you're just gonna go through this life holding hands and seeing kumbaya, irrespective of taste and timing and situation, I think you're setting yourself up for heartbreak and failure. And so a big part of our solution and our coaching is front and center, let's talk about conflict. Let's address the proverbial elephant in the room or the danger zone, right? And let's figure out how to harness that and use it to our advantage, right? And I've seen way too many companies and people get really messed up just because they assumed it's like this this reality. I think it's true, the difference between being nice and being kind. Nice, most people are gonna possibly be manipulated or they're gonna blow things off or they're gonna stay in bed and play that video game, right? Kind is you need to do the right thing for the right reasons. You need to speak up, you need to say time out, you need to say, hey, I'm sensing we're approaching a conflict area. What do we need to do to come to some type of a mutually beneficial resolution? You with me? And and I think because of AI today and and some of the socioeconomic dynamics of of the ability for people to get formal education, you know, I think this is a lot of the new frontier for us, is typically they've been called soft skills. I think the soft skills are are the more in-demand part of humans today. And especially with more automation, more AI, more, you know, rubbish through the social media and and what we're learning, it's more important than ever to really be in charge of our humaneness, if you will. And and therein lies thoughts like conflict and boundaries and and agency and empathy and authenticity. You with me?

Rebecca Rose Payne 9:19

Yeah. I mean, that's such an interesting way to put it. Kind of the difference between being nice and being kind. Kindness is much less afraid of conflict, it seems like. Because you can be kind but firm, as opposed to like I think people avoid it conflict because they're trying to be nice, and that's just kind of like rolling over.

Scott Abbott 9:40

Yeah. I just believe in my experience I've seen more problems happen. And again, if taken out of context, it sounds like, you know, I'm advocating jerk jerky. I'm not at all. I mean, just a classic example. I did a talk not too long ago, and the CEO's in the room, and uh it was before the event, and I just went in and he's got his team around him. And I'm not exaggerating. I was breakfast, and there was like, you know, omelette on his face, a little spinach, very sincerely. And I noticed from across the room, so it took me probably three minutes, maybe even longer, to get to the table. And I just sat there, hey Jack, Maggie got some. And he literally goes, What the hell? Guys, Abbott walks up here and tells me I got stuff in my face, and you didn't say anything to me. So it says two things to me. It says one, they're intimidated by him, and he thinks he's got a stronger relationship than he does. Or again, back to this concept of nice versus kind. And then even if it is a situation, right, as silly as it sounds, I'm not going all miss manners, but maybe from that his he needs to realize that his team's got some EQ versus IQ issues that they should talk about. Right? It's one of my passions. I I introduced this new leadership development experience a few months ago. Sorry for the plug. Leaderscott.com. How about that? And it really is about this, right? It's about finding these moments that can make or break you, these little tiny fibers that again, you don't want to be overwhelmed by always, you know, what's going on every minute of the day. But but you do have these wonderful little, sometimes innocuous and sometimes very explicit versus implicit, but how do you choose to be in those moments? And I would say to that CEO, I didn't use his real name, by the way, but yeah, after that, you should then take inventory and say, huh. And one can say, well, what does this have to do with our PL, our revenue, our profit, our, you know, all that kind of corporate jargon a lot. Because again, thanks to AI and automation systems, us humans really now have an opportunity to become our vet our best because we really can't invest in the human-centricness, if you will, if we are getting these productivity gains from AI and automation, some of the systems that being put out put out there. So I think it's actually, you didn't ask, but back to AI today. Yes, there's concerns and scariness and uncertainty, but I also think there's actually a very significant opportunity to actually use this to enhance the humanness of us all as part of the the day-to-day business operations.

Rebecca Rose Payne 12:04

I would agree. I think AI, like many things, you know, has potential. It's a kind of a double-edged sword.

Scott Abbott 12:11

As you said, like many things. Like most things.

Rebecca Rose Payne 12:13

Yes.

Scott Abbott 12:14

Yeah.

Rebecca Rose Payne 12:15

I wanted to go back to something you brought up earlier with the CEO and the spinach. Do you think that success makes it easier or harder to trust people?

Scott Abbott 12:24

Harder. And therein lies, again, the art and science of of how to grow and and be a good leader, manager, team member, somebody of accountability is having the right people around you that keep your quote unquote perception of your success in check. You know, I often say you can't read the label from inside the box, and that's applicable to companies and to people. I see this a lot as a coach that people want to kind of yell at the mirror, but not at the reflection, if you know what I mean. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think success, the word itself, and there's a lot of differentiations and variations to what that word means, right? I can be successful. Is it monetary? Is it the number of friends you have? Is it the persona? Is it the perception? I could tell you I work with a lot of senior level, you know, alpha type people. I'm not pillow talking here, but the best of the best have a humility, even though they've got good success. And on the flip side, those that aren't as successful as you think they are kind of BS their way to that area. So I think it's a, you know, it's a great question and it's a very dynamic reality of what success does, why it does it, and then how that compounds vis-a-vis the people that are around somebody who's successful and how they view themselves and others who view them. It's a you know, a lot of books written on this one, I think, but uh yeah, there's a lot of dynamics there. But I'd say, you know, the honest answer is it depends. Depends on the person, the situation. But yeah, I've seen a lot of people, as the expression goes, let success get to their head. But I think as people get older and more mature and they realize that success, you know, when I hear things like we're he's a self or she's a self-made person, that's a bunch of rubbish. Nobody's self-made. So yeah, it's uh it's a challenge and an opportunity for a lot of people when it comes to that word success.

Rebecca Rose Payne 14:16

I would agree. And I very much so about it there being different definitions of it. What would you define as success? And do you think that that has changed over time?

Scott Abbott 14:27

Oh yeah. I mean, I think over time in terms of the evolution of the world and humanity, and I think over time in terms of the evolution of humans, myself included, as time ticks on, even this concept of work-life balance, I think is a bit baloney. I prefer the word harmony. Just if you close your eyes and think about trying to balance whether it's on a beam or a ball or whatever, right? It's always like you're just you're you're never easy, it's always uncomfortable. Harmony, like a band of music, you know, food, ambiance, right? It has variations, it has highs and lows, and and it can still all coexist. All right. So I think uh for me, it's finding harmony. It's finding and appreciating, again, even like we talked about earlier, that there's so much nuance and dynamics, and even when things are not so good, try to find the the good in it. And I'm a bit of a cheesy guy, kind of the old school, you know, no rain, no rainbow, no broken eggs, no omelet. One of my favorites is I get to versus I have to. So I just find uh if you can rally around what I call the essential concepts, tools, and disciplines, and you can tuck that into your world as part of your filter for what success is or isn't. And you can realize, for example, I mean, I'm just gonna be a little cheesy. I worked and lived all over the world. I I never appreciated college football. You know, I'm a big IU guy. We do a lot of work with IU. So last year, 60 and oh, I mean, I was I was almost like a freaking eight-year-old waiting for Santa Claus. It was just amazing. And right now I feel the same way. I mean, I know we've got challenges in our country, but but I gotta tell you, you know, putting on a shirt, I'm just trying to make a point. You know, I don't want to say it's prideful, but it's it's fun, it's exciting, and enjoy it, right? Do we all have other things that aren't so fun and good and challenges? I've got friends that are struggling with cancer, just a lot of, but again, I guess I just say success, you know, without sounding cheesy is a state of mind. Certainly there's a reality about pocketbooks and cash and finances. I get it, health and well-being and spirituality and relationships. But yeah, that's right. I guess I go back to the question you asked earlier. And my advice to most people is to do your homework, self-assess. I'm a big fan of journaling. I got this little book called Moments that tries to help people set up what is your definition of, again, everything from conflict to to boundaries to success. And it's a journey and it's always changing. You know, as I say, the journey is the destination. So I think success does vary. But for me, it's really trying to find harmony. And if I can keep harmony and pay my bills, of course, yeah, uh that all helps, right? And I'm blessed and privileged for that.

Rebecca Rose Payne 17:10

Was there ever a time where you weren't sure that things were going to work out?

Scott Abbott 17:14

Goodness gracious, Rebecca. Plenty. Uh in fact, my first book, Level Up, which I wrote almost 20 years ago, when I was in my mid-20s, thinking I was a hotter shot than I was, I moved out to LA and um had a cool gig and lived down by the beach. Fast forward a few months later, I got laid off in that recession of the day. Basically, I I didn't know shit, excuse my French, and three months later I'm broke as broke, living in uh in squalor uh in an apartment that uh I had wasn't paying my car, wasn't paying rent. I was hiding in and out, and I thought I was worthless and um shouldn't be on this planet, and uh was in the lowest part of my life. I think I got a little nudge from God back in the day that I didn't recognize at the time. Luckily, I got a job offer uh back in Indy, so I pitched uh sold sold everything I had. Uh a buddy of mine lent me a hundred bucks so I could get gas back home, slept in my car, came back to Indy, and I and I lived in a motel, just like in the movies where the bed came out of the wall. I ate mac and cheese and stolen leftovers from the cafeteria and knock on wood, busted my butt, uh, had some inspiration. And uh two years later, through the company I went to work with, I started my first company, and that has a whole bunch of stories too. Big highs, big lows, back in the internet.com days. But uh yeah, like most of us, you know, had some challenges. It's not all, you know, wine and roses. Uh so yeah, that's probably again, and then last but not least, even back to the USA and football. You know, I've been blessed to work and see all over the world. I had offices in Mexico, uh, Caretra, Monterey, Puebla, Mexico City. I've been to Ukraine, all over Europe, been in some pretty dark, ugly areas. So, you know, that's why I go back, irrespective of certainly, you know, economics matter and and there's certainly opportunities with certain people, but but we have a lot of blessings and privileges at the same time. And so I try to use those experiences and you know, those days as motivators and appreciators, I guess, for again when the when the days aren't as good as I'd like them to be.

Rebecca Rose Payne 19:23

Yeah, that is definitely that's an intense story. And like to go from like all the way up to feeling like you're all the way down and then working your way back up again kind of brings me to the next question, which was what would you do if you had to like start from zero tomorrow?

Scott Abbott 19:41

Well, it's gonna sound uh it's not self-serving, it's just I've learned. I got a lot of learning to do and growing up to do and bettering to do, let's be clear. But I believe I almost have a, I don't want to call it a ministry today, but but I'm very passionate about the fusion of what I call humanization, systemization, and optimization. And I'm a tech systems guy, and so I just I'll say it to anybody if you don't have imperfect as it will be, an emphasis in your life about how and what and where and when and why you should be doing what you're doing as opposed to just doing it like the Nike ad, I think you're gonna set yourself up for failure. Second, I think most people focus on results and it's all gonna be good at the finish line and they're missing the point. It's it's the doing, not the done, is where you build character and companies' cultures. So, you know, I would say if I had to go back and lost everything, I'd I'd respect what I try to emphasize these days is okay, what's the plan? Isidore Sharp, the founder of Four Seasons, has a great quote: Systemize the predictable, dehumanize the exceptional. And you can see how that works in a in a hotel, in a restaurant, but even in life, right? How do I standardize and do the things I should do? Ideally, in time it becomes almost second nature, but if not, right, pen, paper, whatever. And then second, keeping it real, keeping it real in terms of, okay, I'm broke. I don't have the money. What do I do? Right? Well, debt, credit cards, you know, that all has its way. And back to your question. I mean, I I've been a bus boy, a waiter, a bartender, a caddy, painted houses, uh, and even to this day, I still paint and plumb and, you know, do some things I probably shouldn't do, by the way. But uh, but yeah, I would just say I would really be focused on keeping it real, having a good plan and agenda, making as much as what should be done in an automated fashion done that way, and working both hard and smart. You know, I think I'm not gonna throw today's dynamics under the bus, but I do think there's a sense of entitlement today. Sorry, I'm gonna sound like the old guy in the room. I think some people are missing the beauty of grit and grace. One of my midlife crisis is I started getting tattoos. This stands for grit and grace forever. Having that harmony between the two are very important. But uh I look around and you know I am my father's son. I mean, I I work 60, 70 hour weeks. I don't think it's what you should do every day. It's not everybody's cup of tea, but you know, you do what you got to do. And and again, through perseverance, through intestinal fortitude, through owning, you know, that's another big concept, ownership, own your situation, even what you don't know. Now, do I believe in this whole concept of pull yourself up by the bootstraps irrespective? I don't think that's fair either. I believe in meritocracy, but I don't think we're all equally blessed to be able to do what it is that others think you should do. Right? For example, there's a lot of places in in the in the United States where internet, for example, Wi-Fi, and you can sit there and say, well, what's the big deal if if in an urban or rural environment they don't have Wi-Fi? Well, you look back at COVID. You have communities that kids were waking up, you know, Wi-Fi everywhere, able to download their classes, have fun, eat their fruit loops in the morning, you know, hanging out in their jammies, and then you got other kids in in the country and downtown that, you know, have to get on a bus and don't have a laptop and don't have Wi-Fi. You know, yeah. That's disparity that unfortunately is is valid. Yeah. But you know, obviously, uh, but in general, what I would say to everybody is yeah, not just working hard, but trying to work smart and back again to what we said even earlier, checking your ego, keeping your head up. I would say it's almost, I don't want to call it the fundamentals, irrespective of what the company is or what business I'm in, if I'm selling donuts or or discs. I really think it comes down to self-ownership and the disciplines and the concepts and the tools we choose to get from here to there.

Rebecca Rose Payne 23:36

I think that's a great answer. So we're just about out of time. I just have one more question, which is imagine if someone listening feels like they are stuck despite having a lot of potential. If there were one thing that you hope that they would take with them from this conversation, what do you think that would be?

Scott Abbott 23:54

The concept of ownership, easier said than done, I get it. But what I mean by that is own your situation, take accountability, fight the good fight. I mean, I can give you all the cliches, and and there's a reason why they are cliches is because a lot of them work. They're true. But I I would just say, you know, keep it real, take ownership, do your best. And on the flip side, there's an old workout show called P90X with Tony Orton. I used to be a big fan. And one of his best lines is, you know, do your best and forget the rest. There's a lot of profoundness to that. But I would just say again, today's day, and I don't want to go back to this whole entitlement thing and people assuming and you know, expecting to get, even though you haven't put in, right? You shouldn't just get outputs without inputs, right? So I just I just emphasize the importance of written grace, owning your situation, this blend of, you know, work hard and work smart. And I'll sum all that up by saying ownership. Own your situation. Um certainly we all have good things and bad challenges and opportunities, but I think if the good good Lord puts you on this earth, the best thing you can do is to say, okay, let's go do something with this opportunity that we have right now. And I get it's easier said than done for me right now. I'm just some guy in the cloud, you know, that you might be listening to, but but I do think that's where you start. Keep it simple, stay focused, and get to it. Own it. That'd be my my simple answer, even though there's a lot more to it than that.

Rebecca Rose Payne 25:24

Well, thank you so much for coming on today and talking with me. Likewise. I really appreciate that.

Scott Abbott 25:30

Thank you. Thanks everybody out there.